Tuesday, 18 July 2017

Dating Thai boys (54) BFC5in2017 Ball in Kanchanaburi

Dating Thai boys (54) BFC5in2017 Ball in Kanchanaburi

During my Songkran escape to Kanchanaburi, I had a promising chat with a boy Ball on hornet (starting 14apr2017), that warranted a visit. Ball lives and works in Kanchanaburi province, 50 km out of Kanchanaburi town.

Tue 25apr2017 Kanchanaburi
Ball is free now (Tue and Wed for temple fair to which he invites me). Meet at Kanchanaburi bus station (he is already there with a friend waiting for me, a good start) and take another bus (about 1 hour) to his home town. He does not ask for money for the bus trip, a good sign (NOT! We will later come back to this!) At bus stop there, his sister comes by car to take us to nearby resort where I check in for one night (450 Baht). The resort was in walking distance, and I could have walked in less time than we waited for his sister.

By car to temple fair for a first look, then back to my resort on his mocy for a rest. I take shower and we lie in bed and I initiate sexual activities. My type, but a bit rushed and style-wise room for improvement. Sleep an hour, and at night to temple fair again. However, this is not at all my style and at 9 pm I ask him to take me back to resort, where I read 2 hours alone in my room and sleep at 11. Leave door unlocked for him to join me later.

Wed 26apr2017 Kanchanaburi
Wake up around 8 and find the boy sleeping next to me. A few gropes: perfectly warm and dry skin. But alas, the dreaded phone call: the fair will continue soon and we have to go now. (During dressing, I find the pocket that contains my wallet open, and I can’t think of any reasons why I would have left the pocket open, and there might be some 100 Baht notes missing. Should have counted! Keep that in mind for next time we meet.) Breakfast at the temple fair, then sightseeing (temple near his place that is on my list). At the temple, he tells me that his father is mentally disabled and lies in bed all day (that’s not something I would tell on a date, and should have gotten my alarm bells ringing – subconsciously, I changed subjects because I knew where this would lead).

From what I have seen and heard so far, there is nothing to be gained from staying another night (if sex had been awesome, I would have stayed another night), check out and to bus station and goodbye. No money requests!

That was 5h27min and 155 Baht travel (door to door) getting there, and 5h19min and 151 Baht back.

On the way back, I congratulate myself to finding a boy who is my type (we need to work a bit on the sex part) and who I can spend 20 hours with without any games or drama or requests for money. BFC5in2017!

But I was rejoicing to early! Shortly after reaching home, we have the following conversation (my translation; explanations in italic):

Chat history with Ball Kan
(several chats over the week before the trip, to see if he can think clearly and form a full sentence in Thai, and test for delay between messages - all positive!)
2017/04/26(Wed)
12:32 Ball Kan ถึงไหน Where are you now?
12:37 Christian บ้านโป่ง Baan Pong (town in Ratchaburi province on the way to Bangkok)
15:09 Christian ถึง I’m home.
19:47 Ball Kan ครับ Krap = Ok.
19:47 Ball Kan เป็นไง What’s up?
19:47 Ball Kan ชอบไหม Do you like me?
19:47 Christian ผมชอบบอล I like you.
19:47 Ball Kan จริงรึครับ Really?
19:48 Ball Kan บ้านเราจนนะ My family is poor.
19:48 Christian จริง Really?
19:48 Ball Kan ไม่มีเงินนะ We don’t have money.
19:49 Ball Kan คุณจะชอบไหม Do you still like me?
19:49 Christian ไม้เป็นไร It doesn’t matter.
19:49 Ball Kan บ้านก็ไม่ค่อยดี Our house isn’t nice.
19:49 Christian มีแอร์มั้ย Do you have aircon?

(I’m fishing for an invitation to stay at his place next time. In Kanchanaburi town I would prefer a hotel so I have freedom, but in rural area I’m dependent on him for transport, and there is nothing to do anyway, so I can as well stay in his place and save money for hotel.)

19:49 Ball Kan ไม่มี We don’t have.
19:50 Ball Kan คุณก็มาติดสิถึงมี When you come again you can have one installed.
19:50 Christian น้ำอุนมีมั้ย Do you have hot water?
19:50 Ball Kan ไม่มี We don’t have.
19:51 Ball Kan ไม่มีเงินทำ We don’t have money for water heater.
19:51 Ball Kan เงินเดือนน้อยมาก We have very little money to spend.
19:51 Christian ก็พักโรงแรมดีดว่าพักห้องบอล Then I will rather stay in a hotel than in your room.
19:53 Ball Kan เครตามใจ As you like.
19:53 Ball Kan บ้านเราไม่มีอ่ะไร We have nothing.
19:54 Ball Kan บ้านเราไม่ใช่คนมีเงิน Our house is not like the house of rich people.
19:54 Christian หอพักที่ท่าม่วงมีแอร์มั้ย Do you have aircon in your dormitory in Tha Muang?
19:54 Ball Kan มี yes.
19:54 Ball Kan แต่เล็ก But it’s small.
19:54 Christian พักกับใคร Who do you stay with?
19:54 Ball Kan คนเดียว Alone.
19:59 Ball Kan ทำไมรึ Why?
19:59 Ball Kan มีอ่ะไร Why do you want to know?
(I’m still looking for a place to stay for free when I go again.)
19:59 Christian โอกาสหน้าไปหาที่ท่าม่วงได้มั้ย Can I go to see you in Tha Muang?
20:00 Christian รึบอลจะมาหาที่กทม Or will you come to Bangkok?
20:00 Ball Kan เราไม่มีเงิน I don’t have money.
20:01 Christian ก็รอผมจะไปกาญอีกประมาน2เดือน Then wait until I go to Kanchanaburi again in two months. (Estimate, I have no plan yet. If the sex had been good, I would be back in a week.)
20:02 Ball Kan อ่อ Oh
20:02 Ball Kan มาพักต้องช่วยกันออก When you come to stay with me, can you help me?
(I can’t figure out what he means, so I leave this message read but no reply to see if he gives more information.)
20:06 Ball Kan คุณไม่โอเครใช้ไหม Is it ok?
20:06 Christian งง ช่วยกันอะไร I’m confused. Help with what?
20:06 Ball Kan ช่วยออกเงินไง Help paying rent.
20:07 Ball Kan คุณไม่โอเครผมไม่ว่า It’s not ok?
20:07 Christian ถ้าผมพักกับบอลที่ท่าม่วงช่วยออกเงินรึ You want me to pay rent when I stay with you in Tha Muang? (How awkward!)
20:08 Ball Kan ใช้ Yes.
20:09 Ball Kan เราก็เสียเงิน I have to pay for my room.
20:09 Christian ห้องเดือนละกี่บาท How much is your room per month?
20:09 Ball Kan 2000
20:11 Ball Kan ท่าไม่โอเครไม่ว่า If not, that’s fine.
20:11 Christian พัก1คืนจะช่วย100 When I stay for one night, I can give you 100 Baht.
20:13 Ball Kan คุณหาคนอื่นก่อนคริสเตียน Maybe you better find someone else.
20:13 Ball Kan เราจน I’m poor.
20:13 Ball Kan ลองหาคนมีเงินดู Try to find someone rich.
20:14 Christian ไม่เป็นไร It doesn’t matter.
20:14 Ball Kan คือ What do you mean?
20:15 Ball Kan อ่ะไร What does not matter.
20:16 Christian ผมไม่เลือกคนตามรวย I’m not looking for someone rich.
20:16 Ball Kan แต่คุณประหยัดมาก But you are a very economical person.
20:19 Ball Kan เคร Ok?
20:20 Ball Kan คุณก็ลองหาคนอื่นดู Go and look for someone else.
20:21 Ball Kan คุณก็หาเอา You will find.
20:24 Ball Kan โอเครนะ Ok?
20:24 Ball Kan คริสเตียน Christian
20:26 Ball Kan คุณเที่ยวซาวหน้าต่อเถอะ Go for fun in a sauna.  
(I mentioned visits to gay saunas in Bangkok, a mistake.)
20:28 Ball Kan โอเค Ok.
20:30 Ball Kan พาคุณเที่ยว Go on a trip.
20:30 Ball Kan คุณไม่เลี้ยงอ่ะไรเลย You didn’t invite me for anything.
20:32 Christian เอาเลี้วยอะไร What do you want me to invite you for?
20:33 Ball Kan คือไร What?
20:34 Christian อยากผมลี้ยงคุนอะไร (rephrase the above)
20:34 Ball Kan เลี้ยงข้าว Invite me for food.
20:34 Ball Kan หรือเลี้ยงอ่ะไรก็ได้ or whatever you want.
20:34 Christian ที่งานมีข้าวฟรี But at the fair there was free food!
20:35 Ball Kan ก็ใช่ Well that’s true.
20:35 Ball Kan จ่ายค่ารถเมย์ก็ยังดี Pay for my bus.
20:35 Christian ก็ต้องถามขอค่ารถ Then you should have asked for the bus fare.
20:36 Ball Kan ต้องให้ผมขอ You want me to ask you?
20:39 Ball Kan ใช่ไหม Right?
20:39 Ball Kan มันไม่ใช่นิสัยคนไทย That’s not customary in Thailand.
20:40 Ball Kan มันคือน้ำใจที่คุณต้องให้ It’s your obligation to be kind and offer to pay.
20:41 Ball Kan ไม่ใช่ให้เราขอ I should not have to ask.

(I’m taken aback. Did I miss something in all those years I have spent here? It is not customary for Thai people to ask for favors? Is he pulling my leg?)

20:41 Christian ผมไม่ชอบคุยเรีองเงิน I don’t like to talk about money matters.
20:42 Christian ตลอดเมีองไทย ทุกที่ผมไป ทุกคนขอเงิ Everywhere in Thailand, everyone I meet, they all want money!
20:42 Christian ทุกคนขอเงิน Everyone asks me for money!
20:42 Ball Kan ตามสบาย Take it easy!
20:42 Ball Kan เราไม่ได้ขอ I didn’t ask for anyting.
20:42 Ball Kan มันคือน้ำใจ It’s your kindness to take care of me.
20:45 Ball Kan [Sticker] (Do you understand?)
20:47 Christian โอกาสหน้าเจอกันที่กาญจะเลี้ยงกินข้าว Next time we meet in Kanchanaburi, I will invite you for dinner.
20:47 Ball Kan ไม่รู้จะว่างป่าว But you don’t know yet when you will be free?
23:14 Ball Kan [Sticker]
(Resume chat with change of subject to stay in contact and meet whenever I’m in Kanchanaburi again. He is still on my list, but we haven’t met again at time of posting.)

Now the lackluster sex makes sense: he was thinking how he can get me to fill the vacant position of a provider.

(The lowest point of lackluster sex was in 2013 when I went to see a boy who lived nearby, who asked me during foreplay if my mobile phone has data and if I could set it up as WiFi-hotspot so he can play on his phone using my data package.

The boy Bank whom I gave my phone numbers in Seed in 2015 (?), then met a week after in The Mall Bangkapi. There he walked me through the mobile phone aisles, then we took boat to Seed, there I had some gropes, but couldn't get him into a cubicle, and I was wondering what that all was about, until I got an SMS on my way home: "I want an iPhone".

Recent examples of boy having other things on his mind than sex is the one I took to a gay sauna, and who was afraid someone would look over the wall and lost his erection over this; and Rit the Muslim who was more occupied with getting the right light and angle for taking pictures and videos of our activity than pleasing me.) 

This can be generalized for most of my non-paid encounters:
I’m looking for sex, boy looks for a provider or some material or financial advantage.

There is no such thing as free sex in Thailand! (Between people of different status.) Others probably have said it before, but I thought this doesn’t apply to me because I speak the language and have more knowledge than the average tourist, but I was wrong!

Except for encounters in saunas and the errant horny boy online, all boys I meet are looking more for a provider than for sex.

Rather sooner than later, rather more than less, they expect a financial or material reward. This is expressed in weak or strong hints, lackluster in bed, slow reply, no-show.

Some boys tell me they are looking for a provider, and I leave them. Others don’t tell me, but leave me.

Boy tries to find someone else who gives money, I try to find someone else who doesn’t ask for money. That’s what I’ve been doing since 2009.

Copyright 2017 ChristianPFC

17 comments:

  1. Interesting...
    I think the boy was right, in a way - the ideal lover is who takes care of everything without the need to ask, since asking does involve a certain degree of embarrasment. Even if asking from a farang the boy doesn't particularly care for and have no feelings for is probably more like trying to use a somewhat faulty ATM...

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  2. move up the social ladder a bit ; boys or rather men with better schooling and better jobs and mingle and participate with social contacts at middle class restaurants/ entertainment areas-anything other than only money bars/sauna's and gay apps - dress better - get a job ! and u will find tons of guys wanting something other than only your money. It is not like looking down at these working boys - but those u need to provide with money - as by now u found out . There is no guarantee for success at the more middle class level but at least u have a much better chance. And also : if a boy has cold skin - take a romantic shower together - than it should be fine afterwards.Your still young - not really handsome - but thats ok and for heaven sake get dressed up !

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    1. this exactly right!

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  3. Open pocket with wallet with perhaps some money missing. You shouldn't mention it unless you are sure , otherwise it's not fair. Take precaution , count money but if you just suspect but not sure it's better not to accuse anybody , even if he is total stranger to us readers.

    As for providing and requests for money, enough to say
    I'm surprised that you are surprised.

    For those boys you are stranger with higher status hence more moneyed so it goes without saying you are expect to pay at least for small things like bus fare or dinner if only to make good first impression.

    Thank you for presenting your adventure in honest and open manner but I have an impression that in case above readers will be keeping boy's side, sorry for being blunt

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    1. You are right. I'm getting paranoid about missing money and open pockets, should have kept that to myself.

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  4. Dating Thai boys. that is what you are still calling it? You really need to get on some stronger medication so that you can come back to reality.

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    1. Definitions. Some readers don’t understand my use of “dating” and “boyfriend candidate”.

      “Dating” refers to all activities, online and in real life, that I undertake to meet someone with intention of sex. Preferably free, but if it’s a moneyboy I will pay, and if I try to recruit straight boys I will offer money.

      “Boyfriend candidate” is someone who passes our first encounter without showing character or physical flaws. Someone who is a money boy or unreliable can still be a repeat sexual partner, but not a boyfriend candidate. Someone who is a bit too fat, pale, hairy can still be a repeat sexual partner, but not a boyfriend candidate. It’s more of a double negative, a boyfriend candidate is someone who is not not boyfriend candidate. If I meet a boyfriend candidate several times, and I still can’t find flaws, we can become boyfriends.

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    2. If you don't find flaws I am sure the so called boyfriend will.
      You are not boyfriend material. To many flaws of your own.

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    3. What are my flaws? (I'm well aware I have flaws, but want to know what others consider to be my flaws.)

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  5. I think that this chat protocol exemplifies why communicating with your boyfriend candidates in Thai comes with a rather tricky implication: A Thai who is poor and hasn't had much - or any - exposure to foreigners initially doesn't realize just how alien you are, how much your mindset and background differs from his. You speak the language, but you're not guided by those social norms Thais are familiar with. It could even be argued that you are almost completely oblivious of them - or break them on purpose for your benefit.

    I cannot find any fault with what Ball wrote. From the limited insight the chat excerpts provide, he seems to be a genuine and decent kind of guy. From his point of view, he has to point out even the most obvious things to you, which clearly makes him uncomfortable, because it should be implied (within the context of Thai society). Such as the concepts of เกรงใจ (why he is reluctant to directly ask you for money) and น้ำใจ (why you, being perceived as much richer, should show generosity towards him without being asked for it). I repeat, since you speak the language, a Thai who isn't familiar with foreign mindsets has no way of knowing that you are either not familiar with these concepts or deliberately ignore them.

    In the worst case, that makes you come across like a Trojan Horse that gains access by speaking the language, but hides an incomprehensibly alien mindset behind it. A Thai who cannot speak any foreign language and who has never interacted with foreigners really cannot be expected to make sense of that. But reading your chat protocols as an educated and objective observer, I cannot help but notice a fundamental disconnect.

    The way I see it, you only have two options to fix this disconnect that has been undermining your dating efforts across many similar reports: Either target a different group of Thais, less poor and/or more familiar with all things foreign - typically those who are willing and able to communicate with you in English at least to some extent. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't speak Thai with them - just filter out those candidates who would leave you with no other option! Or make a genuine effort to adapt to the Thai mindset, but that means that you will typically need to be seen as generous and kind towards those who are poorer than you, if you want to spend time with them and want them to feel comfortable in your company. In line with what I wrote on your legendary "Retards" thread on dear old Gaybutton's forum some years ago, personally I would do the former and focus on Thais who can speak (some) English and who show (some) interest in alien concepts. Best of luck!

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    1. Thank you very much. When I had the chat with the boy (the part where he tells me that it's not customary for Thai people to ask for things), I thought "What the Fuck?", and had to restrain from telling him what I think about Thai people. But then, after ruminating for some days, my thoughts changed to "Aha!" - finally someone spells it out to me what many others thought, but did not say, and what I didn't see. Under normal circumstances I would have invited him for dinner, but here I was trapped between festival and being reliant on him for transportation, there was simply no chance (other than offering to pay for his bus trip, or for petrol for mocy).

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  6. Interesting post CPFC !

    Thank you

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  7. Of course you schould pay. You are too stingy. You are older you are from wealthy country, come on show some respect for the poor. The guy takes the trouble to get his sister driving you and all that is in your mind is that it would be faster to walk. ... All this about just staying with the guy because you can save money ... go and get a work and earn money so you can afford not to use people.

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  9. The story takes a new twist. Today Ball messaged me asking if I have gay friends who would be interested in him. Then tells me he wants to go to Pattaya to work in a bar as a way to find a Farang boyfriend. Then after long and winding chat it finally emerges that he needs 10,000 Baht PER MONTH to take care of his sick father. I offer to send him 1,000 Baht one time (now) and ask for his bank account, but doesn’t take me up on this offer.

    I feel sorry for him, and the situation is totally fucked up: as far as I understood, the father is mentally ill, that means there is no return on the investment of 10,000 Baht PER MONTH, that just keeps the current state. If it was debt, the debt could be repaid; if it was school or university fee, there is an end to it and it gives someone an education, but here the money is lost!

    If I wasn’t already atheist, I would lose my faith over this.

    One of the moments where I wish I were rich so 10,000 Baht per months don’t matter to me and I could help him, just like I gave one of my regulars 200 Baht for his birthday because 200 Baht don’t matter to me and he can buy himself a nice present.

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    1. That is new twist and not for good. Even if his plan is successful and he finds farang boyfriend he will soon find that his boyfriend role is to be just ATM so truly boy is fucked up and we can only feel sorry for him.

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    2. I should add that your offer was pretty generous considering circumstances and is probably all you can do for him now.

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